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[lesliethequeen]

Just read a post from the Delightful Tennessee Tammy - and I was struck by something she said while talking about drinking club soda...

"Don't Bash me for Drinking Carbonation..."  That hit home to the Max!

I love this site. I come here at least once a day to be uplifted and laugh and learn something new. I whine and piss and moan here because, honestly, no one else has had their child start crying because her mother weighs less than she does or a friend make a snide comment about saggy skin because that friend is jealous that you have managed to lose that 100 pounds when she can't lose the 20 she struggles with. You aren't judging her, but she is really not happy that you are now the thin one!

Nobody will tell you to get your butt to the doctor or stop being angry at yourself for messing up - and nobody rem embers to say "Tomorrow is another day to try again" like another WLS patient/survivor!

But I am also amazed quite frequently how much bashing goes on! Sometimes there is a real "I am better than you because I would NEVER eat a piece of bread and you ate two sandwiches today" attitude that keeps me from posting what I eat every day. The WDYE thread seems like it would be fun and interesting but I'm not telling you what I eat because I don't want to hear..."well, if you'd just give up carbs you'd be a better person".

Okay, so no one really says that, but the attitude is there sometimes...

I love you guys so much, really. You are all smart, funny, helpful, kind and giving of knowledge and comfort. But sometimes I'm afraid to say something because I think "Well, they won't like that and they will think I am nuts if i say that..."

Well, I am nuts, beside the point.

I also know that we are all different. Our journey is individual and we have to take our own course...and that's okay...Whatever you choose, i will back you up on it, give my opinion but value yours...

Okay - here's my opinion on WLS and Diet.

Some people drink soda/carbonation, some don't.
*I tried my first diet root beer the other day - I was so scared what it would do to my Princess Stomach that I let it sit on the counter to let the bubbles float away. It was the bubbles I missed, so what was the point? Doesn't mean i won't try again...I DO love a good root beer...

Some people eat bread, some don't.
*I love bread and fully expect to keep it in my diet for life.

Some people avoid all carbohydrates, some people enjoy them with every meal.
*Carbs at times are the only thing that doesn't hurt when I eat it. I am happy with a couple of tablespoons of Mashed Potatoes with gravy to go with my beef, chicken or pork. I use to eat 4 desserts every day and a pile of potatoes the size of an small infant. I don't eat like that any more and never will again. It does not make me a bad person or a WLS failure because I enjoy a few tablespoons of mashed potatoes.
*Carbs are the fuel your body needs so that it doesn't eat your muscles. Protein needs to be added to keep your levels up and keep your body healing, but if you don't want to lose muscle mass, carbs are what your body seeks first. Nutrition school taught me that. I believe it.

Some people haven't eaten a piece of fruit or a whole apple or salad since they were Freak-isized. Some people crave fruits and vegetables and miss them daily...or add them daily. The nutritional guidelines say at least 5 servings of fruits and veg a day - up to 9! Of course, where would you put 9 F&V when you have to get all that protein in? But 5 is doable. No one here became obese by eating too many fruits and vegetables. I promise.

Some people decide to ignore the advice given to them by their Nutritionist - you know, the person with the Master's Degree in the science of nutrition? And do their own thing. Some people are grateful for another source of info  and support. It's okay, whatever you decide. (Sorry, you can see my prejudice there, but it really is okay, whatever you choose...)


Some people decide to try eating sugar, some people are terrified to do that.
*The idea scares me to death! A dump after a SF treat is bad enough, the thought of real sugar makes my palms sweat with fear! But if you can handle it - go for it and I am jealous!

Some people might decide to eat nothing but bread and peanut butter for two days while thinking that a whole SF candy bar with nuts constitutes a balanced meal plan (It has protein, right?) and I'm okay with that...not that I would ever do it...because we all know I am better than that...

Okay, i got off track there...

I just don't want to be afraid to post anything here because I am afraid of being judged and found not worthy of being your friend! This is my safe place...I never want to lose you lot...

My rant is over...be kind...

[gum2bear]

I do agree with you - I don't think that we need to be bashing each other over our actions.  Each of us has our own journey to follow - and each doctor's plan is different (mine told me to have 1/2 a sandwich as lunch sometimes).

On the flip side, I believe that it never hurts to give advice - if asked for - and DONE NICELY.  If someone posted their menus and asked for opinions as to why they aren't losing, then yes, advice is OK.  If it's just on the WDYE thread for accountability and ideas for others, then advice isn't warranted.

No matter what, people need to be respectful to each other - that's what I try to teach my own children and students.

Jen

[auntb]

Amen Sister Leslie.

 Really this site is wonderful and most people are great. I think that it is important to make sure that you get lots of people to chime in so that newbies can get a good idea what the road ahead can look like. I've stopped going to a lot of other sites because the bashing is shameful.

Continue the sermon. I'll be in the first pew.

[lesliethequeen]

So glad you lovelies commented and i totally agree with you both. I love this place and it is a safe place for me...us. It's probably just my own insecurities at work here...They love to take over...

In fact, after I wrote this, I was convinced that no one would like me any more....Lord, I have to get some self esteem!

Working on it....Still working on it...

[Barb]

I love this site because I know that I can pose a question on anything & know that I'll get honest advice/feedback. I was on the OH boards for about a half a second - talk about bashing!! Nothing out there compares to our BTV freaky family - love it, love it, love it!!

[Cheryl Damon]

And a big AMEN was heard from the choir!!

[MacMadame]

I see both sides of this.

I see people who post online (not just here and mostly on OH) ASKING for advice or crying that they aren't losing the weight they want to. Then, if your advice isn't a validation of their choices, they pitch a fit at you for being "mean." It makes me hesitate to say something sometimes when I see people who are struggling and are doing some obvious things that they could improve on. No one wants to get bashed for reaching out to help. Especially when the person ASKED for help.

OTOH, there are people -- mostly early out -- who think that WLS is all glitter and rainbows and as long as you follow some rather arbitrary rules nothing bad will happen to you and you'll lose all your weight and never regain and live will be glorious forever. Many of them aren't at goal yet and they certainly aren't years out so they really have no idea that this journey is like in the long run. But that doesn't stop them from giving advice and jumping on anyone who isn't doing what their program says.

Sure, when I was 3 months out, I couldn't even *imagine* eating some of the stuff that people in maintenance were eating. But I at least had the sense to keep my mouth shut because I knew I didn't know. It's a good thing too because now I'm 3.5+ years out and I'm eating those things too. And now I get that most of us can't eat like you eat immediately pre-op for the rest of our lives. Well, I guess I kind of always "got" that but I didn't get the details or what that would mean for me and my choices this far out.

SO:

To the people who have a cow if you mention eating crackers or drinking from a straw or having soda, I want to say: chill out. But at the same time, when I see people basically throwing away their honeymoon period, not developing good habits and pushing the limits at every turn, I was to say: Stop it! You'll regret it at 1 year out when you aren't at goal and not it's 100% harder to change your approach to food and exercise.

[trishansen]

I love this discussion - I have been thinking about it for a bit too, starting with a post that caught me off guard - the person was posting a link to their UTube video blog and said that negative feedback would result in them being deleted. I was shocked that this person felt they need to put that disclaimer on a post on THIS website - I have never seen or heard of any negative comments or feedback here in the over a year and a half of me reading posts. It made me sad and angry at the same time.

I come here for information, support and the real life stories - and I love when people are honest and say exactly what's going on in their lives - good or bad.. We all have "those days" , we all have struggles, and we have terrific success stories! To hear about someone's journey makes mine easier to navigate, and provides me with insight and helps me be more successful too!

I hope that the non-judgemental support continues, and respect and consideration for others personal journeys remains paramount.

[baka]

My head hurts after reading that.......

In the three years on this site I have yet to see anyone get hammered - They would be nailed by Toni and Lynnda then Mike would show them the door!

This is why I made this my WLS home - We're family

Ian

[Dr_Adventure]

I got to admit that the only things I edit on posting on this board are from the fears in my head - nothing but support have I found here.

[Indykitty]

No one is going to stop being your friend because you drink a soda or eat simple carbs - we just all have our own experience and like McMadame said, sometimes you want to just tell folks to be careful early out. The only thing I can share is my own experience and simple carbs mess me up - and I'm not talking brocolli here!  Oh, I still eat them - the simple carbs, but I personally have a food problem where certain things will trigger me to binge like a maniac and I am not the only one. I am jealous of those who can eat the stuff in moderation and get to goal, but that doesn't mean I don't want to be friends with them or that I dislike them. I just wish I could, too and I respect the fact that we are all individuals with different chemistry.

I'm at over 3 years out (3 years last December 15), but I'm 25 pounds over my goal this morning - up almost 13 pounds  since the 1st of the month at my lowest weight, because sometimes I freak out and want to eat like a 'normal' person. I am not a 'normal' person.  I have trouble too sometimes with posting everything because it's scary and I know when I am off track, but sometimes I make myself do it anyway because I need to see it writing and I need that support or sympathy or advice and I want others to know it's not just them if they are struggling with this. I don't know about anyone else, but I would never bash anyone. I might make suggestions, but it is NEVER in a mean spirited way, but only based on personal experience. 

[Cheryl Damon]

I agree, it is VERY scary to post when things aren't going well, but I can't tell everyone what a great help and inspiration you have been to me by doing exactly that. When I read about someone else struggling, the voice in my head says "ok, it's not just you, you aren't a failure, you're just human, now pick yourself up and go for it again, you'll get it right this time."

So to all that struggle in this journey and share their experience and insights along the way...thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!!

[T2Nashville]

Well, I had no idea my little comment would start such a great thread! Good job, Leslie, for being brave enough to post it.

I should note that like Ian, I have NEVER experienced being bashed or humiliated here at BTV for anything I've ever said. My reasoning for posting that comment (and maybe I worded it wrong) is that we have a ton of lurkers who come here who never post anything. I certainly wanted to explain, especially for newbies, that carbonation is a choice - totally up to you.

As you said, Leslie, we all have different plans from our docs (I ate mashed potatoes, crackers, and cream soups early on because I was told to, and it was easy on the tummy - still lost weight) and we make different choices during maintenance as we learn what our bodies will tolerate. Carbs are more my enemy than carbonation ever will be - but that's just me. For poor Cheryl, who suffers from reflux - it's a whole different story.

I encourage you to post on WDYE. If you saw the posts from last week, you already know how badly Keilah and I struggled with poor food choices. It was nice to know that someone else was not only brave enough to post, but also going through the same issues I was. We're back on the horse this week! Also, we don't bash there ever. For example, last week, sweet LeAnne (Army Wife) joined us and asked us to have a look at her menu and what she could do differently. After we commented, she realized that a Wendy's salad she was eating had more extra carbs and sugars than she thought. Now, she can make a change that might really jump start her losing again.

We're all in this together, and this is absolutely the best forum in the world for support.

[lesliethequeen]

This has turned into an lot of incredible insight and advice. I'm so glad. I love it here and, no, no one has ever bashed me and I sure hope I haven't hurt anyone with anything I'm said.

I think sometimes we say things and don't mean what someone else thinks we mean (I have no specific incidences I am thinking of, really) You are the folks I look to for advice, encouragement and even a kick in the pants when I need it. And those of you who have mentions OH - well, I went there about 4 times and just couldn't go back...they are just not kind.

Anyway, I always appreciate your advice and I learn continually how to deal with this. It's still intimidating when I admire you all so much and I I feel I don't measure up!  You are rockstars to me! All of you...

So, glad, we can discuss this...and agree that we and BTV are really, truly amazing... tee hee...

[shepkatt]

Hey gang...   When I was reading the initial post I kept thinking... "Where has there been attitude or judging or bashing on this site?"... Cuz seriously - Toni, Mike and I would have a little conversation with the person.. :-)  But I can see that it hasn't been happening.. 

Toni and I always say that we will tell y'all what we think.. what the ASMBS thinks.. What our awesome sponsors think..   But we will never bash you for making up your own minds.  We are not your mommy's..  You are all adults and if you want to have a Diet Soda.. then have one..  It's your decision and if it gets out of hand then you are the one that needs to adjust accordingly.  We will be here with the advice..  We will be here to celebrate your victories.. and we will be here to sympathize and bitch with ya when things go wrong..

But we won't ever judge you and we won't allow that crap to go on in our little slice of the interwebs either!  :-)

Love ya Freaks!

[lesliethequeen]

And, honestly, Lynnda, that's why this site is the best around. The people who are monitoring it are kind  and decent and bashing isn't allowed. And I thank you for that.

But i have to say I was grateful to see in some responses that I wasn't the only one who had felt that way about a post...and if I have said something that hurt someone's feelings, please know that I was just offering an opinion, trying to be funny (I find myself remarkably funny...) or trying to to help. I think that's what sometimes gets us in trouble - email/texting is not the best media to not be misinterpreted. We humans are just wild sometimes!

No matter what, it doesn't stop me from coming here every day and getting answers, laughs or peace...

[chellebee]

I was incredibly lucky when I found BTV...it was the first thing that came up when I was googling prior to my surgery. I was immediately drawn in by the videos...the honest and open way topics are addressed. I have never even looked anywhere else.

You are all.awesome.

[mommchan]

I love this site... even though I've STILL not had surgery I have always felt at home and welcomed.
MacMadame said alot of good things. I love that I'm going to get honesty and love anytime I post. Even when I told my story of being Bi Polar you all accepted me and didn't have a problem with a "Crazy Person"... lol. I've told many people about BTV and they just can't believe what great people are on here. I still have 5-12 more visits to the therapist before I get my answer on surgery... It looks promising.

Neice

[Kierie]

I drink Diet Soda and have fallen into the occasional Vat of cookies. We don't judge on WDYE we may offer suggestions but we all fall off of the wagon. What I love about this place is we all accept each other, our different experiences in life and in WLS